MSNBC’s Katy Tur asked her panel on Friday if it was fair for New York Attorney General Letitia James to sue Donald Trump and the Trump Organization for fraud even if there were no actual victims.
In a ruling handed down Friday, Judge Arthur Engoron ordered Trump to pay $354 million for defrauding banks and insurance companies. The judge also appointed an “independent monitor” to keep an eye on the Trump businesses and he barred Trump from running his New York businesses for three years. Trump argued that the banks and insurers endured no harm and therefore there was no fraud.
Tur cited reporting by the Associated Press on a particular statute used in the Trump fraud case that doesn’t require any proof of harm done to an individual or entity.
“You don’t have to show that anybody was hurt by your practices. There’s nobody you defrauded specifically,” Tur said.
She continued:
So, even though the threshold is harm shown, in the past, it has only been used to ban someone doing business when it’s been shown that somebody was hurt. Say you’re selling cosmetics that are poisoning you; there’s somebody that was hurt there, the cosmetics company gets banned.
Is this fair to go after Donald Trump like this in this environment, is my question?
Tristan Snell, former New York assistant attorney general, used the very same statute against Trump University for scamming people out of thousands of dollars.
Snell said, “The legal standard is whether there was a tendency to deceive. That’s what it is, and the legislature in New York made a public policy choice to say that that was an important weapon for the A.G.’s office to have to vindicate the public good in this situation.”
Tur interjected, “And it seems like what Judge Engoron found is there was intention, not just a tendency, there was intention to deceive.”
“I think, too, the interesting thing about victims is, there were victims here, and they were the banks,” said MSNBC contributor, Suzanne Craig. “They’re just not the most popular victims in society.”
Tur pushed back, saying the defrauded banks “don’t feel like they lost.”
“They still did, and that’s the conclusion, and that’s where they’re at today,” Craig said. “If they had known the facts, they would have charged a higher interest rate. And they lost money.”
Watch the clip above via MSNBC.
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